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One of the reasons that nobody else offers a live update service is because Mochimedia filed for a patent (which can be found here using the publication number 20090298582), something which we very vocally disagreed with as soon as we heard about it. We were reassured that Mochi probably wouldn't ever litigate, but we were keenly aware that the endgame was to increase the company's resale value, and we had no idea what a potential buyer would do with the patent.
Fortunately, the patent was never granted, apparently due to non-response from Mochi. This may have been an ethically-motivated decision, but I think it's much more likely that it simply got lost in the acquisition shuffle, especially when the first round of negotiations fell through in 2009. Regardless, the patent was in the system until October 2011, during which time nobody else dared to risk creating their own system.
Nobody, that is, except for Amazon, who filed for 2 nearly identical patents (1, 2) in 2009 (a few months after the first talk of acquisition began), both of which were approved (one just a few weeks ago).
The following is conjecture: I suspect that Amazon (which has an absurdly abusive policy on patents; their departments are literally given a quota for patent filings) smelled blood in the water, knew that a Chinese suitor would have little interest in a US patent, and figured they'd be first in line to grab the patent if Mochi's fell through (which it did). They took a very easy gamble and won: Mochi's patent fell through, and the USPTO is too incompetent to recognize prior art, even if the prior art was submitted to them less than a year earlier.
Amazon's patents never should have been approved, since there was demonstrable prior art, but the USPTO is a clusterfuck and software patents are mankind's worst idea.
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It's a limited approach, but still would deliver some of the key features of Mochi's solution.
Actually, I may play around with this myself with my next game. ;-)
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Anyway, no hard feelings here, and hopefully not with you. It was just my initial reaction to the post, not you specifically.
In regards to others, some may have been working out the idea for a Mochi-like presence for years but only needed a push to begin. Some may be very talented and able to produce a valuable service if given the chance. Necessity is often the mother of invention, after all. And true, some may fall on their faces. But imagine if someone talked to you the same way when FGL started up. Or perhaps some did and now you're on the other side being "that guy." Perhaps even, you were a huge inspiration to some of these people. You never know.
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http://www.emanueleferonato.com/2013/10/22/a-new-way-to-make-money-with-your-flash-games-fgl-ads/
You can also try making a thread in their support forums.
https://www.fgl.com/view_forum.php?forum_id=40
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219
For those of you who have been around a long time, you may remember that before FGL (formerly, FlashGameLicense), Adam and I were heavily involved in the Mochi forums and products. We were indie developers trying to make money on Flash games, and MochiAds and MochiBot were no-brainers. Those days, and Mochi, will always have a special place in my heart.
Fast forward, over 7 years later, and I'm saddened to see Mochi in this situation. I met with Josh and Colin when I was in San Francisco for GDC to see what FGL, or I personally, could do to help and I was surprised to hear that there was absolutely nothing to be done. I even offered to pay for the servers to run for 6 months to help with the transition, and they explained that even that wasn't possible. Truly, it was disappointing.
It's also sad to see the vultures descend. Trying to pick at anything they can, before the body is even a corpse. "Use my service, use my forums, use my just-built-thing-I-never-would-have-made-if-Mochi-wasn't-going-under".
Josh and Colin suggested FGL do the same. Post on the forums, say what we offer, help developers any way we can. It didn't feel right to do it that way, so instead we sent out a newsletter to FGL users, letting them know what they could do. But we didn't touch the forums.
But here I am. After wading through the forum posts about just-set-up companies that are sure to hurt developers more than help them. And posts about how to capitalize on the situation, without thinking what may be the actual best route forward.
So I've decided to reach out here and let you all know about offerings we have. But I don't come to scavenge. My motives are not to offer a quick fix, but a long-term solution. Our services have been around a long time, and are well thought out and proven to make developers money.
Other than Live Updates. FGL offers all the services Mochi has. Admittedly, not all of them are as polished but they are as solid, and backed by a company that has been around a long time and has a track record of ALWAYS looking out for developers.
We have a blog post for developers to help with the transition:
https://www.fgl.com/blog/2014/03/sadly-mochimedia-is-winding-down-but-were-here-to-help-affected-developers/
Also, feel free to ask any questions you have in our forums, which are thriving. And if you haven't visited in a while I suggest you do as it has grown a lot recently.
https://www.fgl.com/choose_forum.php
For those of you interested in mobile (and we suggest to all developers to be thinking about it) we also offer several systems to help you distribute and monetize with native or html5 mobile. We have individual developers making hundreds of thousands of dollars on our mobile services. And millions of dollars in aggregate.
For publishers, we also have solutions for you. We have tens of thousands of Flash games on FlashGameDistribution.com . And GamerSafe.com has a 10% gross rev share for any in-game purchases on your sites. We also have mobile opportunities as well.
Anyone who has questions should feel free to also reach out to me directly: chris@fgl.com
Chris Co-Founder, FGL
Fast forward, over 7 years later, and I'm saddened to see Mochi in this situation. I met with Josh and Colin when I was in San Francisco for GDC to see what FGL, or I personally, could do to help and I was surprised to hear that there was absolutely nothing to be done. I even offered to pay for the servers to run for 6 months to help with the transition, and they explained that even that wasn't possible. Truly, it was disappointing.
It's also sad to see the vultures descend. Trying to pick at anything they can, before the body is even a corpse. "Use my service, use my forums, use my just-built-thing-I-never-would-have-made-if-Mochi-wasn't-going-under".
Josh and Colin suggested FGL do the same. Post on the forums, say what we offer, help developers any way we can. It didn't feel right to do it that way, so instead we sent out a newsletter to FGL users, letting them know what they could do. But we didn't touch the forums.
But here I am. After wading through the forum posts about just-set-up companies that are sure to hurt developers more than help them. And posts about how to capitalize on the situation, without thinking what may be the actual best route forward.
So I've decided to reach out here and let you all know about offerings we have. But I don't come to scavenge. My motives are not to offer a quick fix, but a long-term solution. Our services have been around a long time, and are well thought out and proven to make developers money.
Other than Live Updates. FGL offers all the services Mochi has. Admittedly, not all of them are as polished but they are as solid, and backed by a company that has been around a long time and has a track record of ALWAYS looking out for developers.
We have a blog post for developers to help with the transition:
https://www.fgl.com/blog/2014/03/sadly-mochimedia-is-winding-down-but-were-here-to-help-affected-developers/
Also, feel free to ask any questions you have in our forums, which are thriving. And if you haven't visited in a while I suggest you do as it has grown a lot recently.
https://www.fgl.com/choose_forum.php
For those of you interested in mobile (and we suggest to all developers to be thinking about it) we also offer several systems to help you distribute and monetize with native or html5 mobile. We have individual developers making hundreds of thousands of dollars on our mobile services. And millions of dollars in aggregate.
For publishers, we also have solutions for you. We have tens of thousands of Flash games on FlashGameDistribution.com . And GamerSafe.com has a 10% gross rev share for any in-game purchases on your sites. We also have mobile opportunities as well.
Anyone who has questions should feel free to also reach out to me directly: chris@fgl.com
Chris Co-Founder, FGL
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@khpinc, I think you missed the point. I'm merely letting people know where they can go if they want. We didn't create something new overnight like so many other posts I read. I actually offered real help as well. My original goal was to keep things running for a while if I could (I have games on Mochi as well.. I'm a developer). Can you offer a better solution to what I should do to help?
@wm, I never mentioned mochigome, so I'm not sure why you are touchy. I'm sure there are services that are out there that are good, maybe your new forums are one of them. I know for a fact though most of them are just trying to catch what they can and have no future plans. Honestly, by creating only the forum piece, I'd find it hard to believe you'd be thrown into that category.
@wm, I never mentioned mochigome, so I'm not sure why you are touchy. I'm sure there are services that are out there that are good, maybe your new forums are one of them. I know for a fact though most of them are just trying to catch what they can and have no future plans. Honestly, by creating only the forum piece, I'd find it hard to believe you'd be thrown into that category.
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"It's also sad to see the vultures descend. Trying to pick at anything they can, before the body is even a corpse. "Use my service, use my forums, use my just-built-thing-I-never-would-have-made-if-Mochi-wasn't-going-under"."
Okay, you just said this, and then at the end of the post you say "Use my services!"...wut?
Okay, you just said this, and then at the end of the post you say "Use my services!"...wut?
775 
In Chris's defense they did co-found the entire flash gaming industry and make developers millions of dollars along the way. They're a lot more likely to be around next year than anyone unzipping forum software, begging developers to integrate CPMSstar codes, or replacing Mochi / Mochibot / liveupdates / etc with spur of the moment projects and teams.
448 
FGL & Mochigome both get my vote. No need for it to be one or the other ;) Same too with CPMStar Ads and FGL Ads. I was using both Mochi and CPMStar before rather than just one or the other.
I guess most people have already heard of FGL but if not, and for what its worth, I would recommend giving it a look. Even if not as a replacement for Mochi, since there are separate options there to profit on a game in a different way to Mochi before a game is even distributed. I have been registered on FGL since 2008 (same length of time as I've been on Mochi), I always put my games on there before CPMStar / Mochi for the different services on offer at FGL.
I guess most people have already heard of FGL but if not, and for what its worth, I would recommend giving it a look. Even if not as a replacement for Mochi, since there are separate options there to profit on a game in a different way to Mochi before a game is even distributed. I have been registered on FGL since 2008 (same length of time as I've been on Mochi), I always put my games on there before CPMStar / Mochi for the different services on offer at FGL.
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8,799 Originally posted by ch00se @wm, I never mentioned mochigome, so I'm not sure why you are touchy. I'm sure there are services that are out there that are good, maybe your new forums are one of them. I know for a fact though most of them are just trying to catch what they can and have no future plans. Honestly, by creating only the forum piece, I'd find it hard to believe you'd be thrown into that category.I meant that I didn't feel targeted by your post; I want to square away any arguments about that. I agree about the vultures.
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I just want to point out (in agreement with the posts in this thread) the difference between Mochigome (as well as some of the other forum's that were proposed) and the services being setup by the vultures, is that the former is clearly not an attempt to cash in on the situation.
I don't see myself wanting to use the FGL forums though... culturally they just seem too different from the Mochi forums to be a good fit for this community (IMHO)
I don't see myself wanting to use the FGL forums though... culturally they just seem too different from the Mochi forums to be a good fit for this community (IMHO)
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Chris, don't let these naysayers get to you.
Your comment & offer was both genuine and heartfelt. You're not a vulture, FGL & Mochi go hand-in-hand as the single driving force behind the community.
On behalf of all flash game developers, thank you for your support of the community over the past 7 years as well as in the future.
Your comment & offer was both genuine and heartfelt. You're not a vulture, FGL & Mochi go hand-in-hand as the single driving force behind the community.
On behalf of all flash game developers, thank you for your support of the community over the past 7 years as well as in the future.
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483 Originally posted by ch00se Other than Live UpdatesStory time!
One of the reasons that nobody else offers a live update service is because Mochimedia filed for a patent (which can be found here using the publication number 20090298582), something which we very vocally disagreed with as soon as we heard about it. We were reassured that Mochi probably wouldn't ever litigate, but we were keenly aware that the endgame was to increase the company's resale value, and we had no idea what a potential buyer would do with the patent.
Fortunately, the patent was never granted, apparently due to non-response from Mochi. This may have been an ethically-motivated decision, but I think it's much more likely that it simply got lost in the acquisition shuffle, especially when the first round of negotiations fell through in 2009. Regardless, the patent was in the system until October 2011, during which time nobody else dared to risk creating their own system.
Nobody, that is, except for Amazon, who filed for 2 nearly identical patents (1, 2) in 2009 (a few months after the first talk of acquisition began), both of which were approved (one just a few weeks ago).
The following is conjecture: I suspect that Amazon (which has an absurdly abusive policy on patents; their departments are literally given a quota for patent filings) smelled blood in the water, knew that a Chinese suitor would have little interest in a US patent, and figured they'd be first in line to grab the patent if Mochi's fell through (which it did). They took a very easy gamble and won: Mochi's patent fell through, and the USPTO is too incompetent to recognize prior art, even if the prior art was submitted to them less than a year earlier.
Amazon's patents never should have been approved, since there was demonstrable prior art, but the USPTO is a clusterfuck and software patents are mankind's worst idea.
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219
Thanks everyone for the kind words and support. I do want to point out that the "vulture" language was my own. And after re-reading I was definitely waxing poetic... due to the situation. I intentionally didn't point out any specific cases. So please don't take it the wrong way if you think it may be directed at you because it may not have been (though it was directed at certain companies/people who probably know who they are :)).
@fex in our case the reason we don't support live updates is more due to the overhead. I know Mochi spent a LOT of time making that system run as efficient as possible. Even so, it still added overhead. I'm not sure what it added to bandwidth costs, but in our situation, it would make the system a money loser for us. Is this a system you would be willing to pay for? That's a question out to all devs as well.
@fex in our case the reason we don't support live updates is more due to the overhead. I know Mochi spent a LOT of time making that system run as efficient as possible. Even so, it still added overhead. I'm not sure what it added to bandwidth costs, but in our situation, it would make the system a money loser for us. Is this a system you would be willing to pay for? That's a question out to all devs as well.
483 Originally posted by ch00se Is this a system you would be willing to pay for? That's a question out to all devs as well.As long as it's whitelabel with no strings (mandatory ads, etc.) attached, absolutely. There was actually a pretty popular suggestion on mochi's issue tracker about offering a paid whitelabel version of their live updates service, so I don't think I'm alone.
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1,307 
Originally posted by Beno In Chris's defense they did co-found the entire flash gaming industry and make developers millions of dollars along the way. They're a lot more likely to be around next year than anyone unzipping forum software, begging developers to integrate CPMSstar codes, or replacing Mochi / Mochibot / liveupdates / etc with spur of the moment projects and teams.There were deveoplers regularly getting sponsorships before FGL. For some of them things got worse after FGL as they couldn't attract sponsors as easily. For some things got better. The point is the industry existed before FGL and Mochi. For me it did start me in this industry as my first game was sponsored on $500 sponsorship on FGL, but after that I relied on other sources of income.
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Originally posted by ch00seIf you do build a Live Updates service, please allow devs to block their games remotely. It could have saved so many devs so much trouble in this case, and the overhead would be negligible, probably just retrieving a flag for whether the game was active at all.
@fex in our case the reason we don't support live updates is more due to the overhead. I know Mochi spent a LOT of time making that system run as efficient as possible. Even so, it still added overhead. I'm not sure what it added to bandwidth costs, but in our situation, it would make the system a money loser for us. Is this a system you would be willing to pay for? That's a question out to all devs as well.
45 Originally posted by frederik77Actually, this is a good point. There is a case to be made for "live" updates that didn't necessarily update the SWF, but allowed for blocking/restricting/removing. And a potential approach using simple client-side caching. Extending that, you could also allow for a supplemental data file that, if a dev planned for use beforehand, could be updated via a "live" update quite easily and with significantly less overhead.
Originally posted by ch00seIf you do build a Live Updates service, please allow devs to block their games remotely. It could have saved so many devs so much trouble in this case, and the overhead would be negligible, probably just retrieving a flag for whether the game was active at all.
@fex in our case the reason we don't support live updates is more due to the overhead. I know Mochi spent a LOT of time making that system run as efficient as possible. Even so, it still added overhead. I'm not sure what it added to bandwidth costs, but in our situation, it would make the system a money loser for us. Is this a system you would be willing to pay for? That's a question out to all devs as well.
It's a limited approach, but still would deliver some of the key features of Mochi's solution.
Actually, I may play around with this myself with my next game. ;-)
7,241 1,307 Originally posted by playvueNewgrounds ads can do that.
Originally posted by frederik77Actually, this is a good point. There is a case to be made for "live" updates that didn't necessarily update the SWF, but allowed for blocking/restricting/removing. And a potential approach using simple client-side caching. Extending that, you could also allow for a supplemental data file that, if a dev planned for use beforehand, could be updated via a "live" update quite easily and with significantly less overhead.
Originally posted by ch00seIf you do build a Live Updates service, please allow devs to block their games remotely. It could have saved so many devs so much trouble in this case, and the overhead would be negligible, probably just retrieving a flag for whether the game was active at all.
@fex in our case the reason we don't support live updates is more due to the overhead. I know Mochi spent a LOT of time making that system run as efficient as possible. Even so, it still added overhead. I'm not sure what it added to bandwidth costs, but in our situation, it would make the system a money loser for us. Is this a system you would be willing to pay for? That's a question out to all devs as well.
It's a limited approach, but still would deliver some of the key features of Mochi's solution.
Actually, I may play around with this myself with my next game. ;-)
7 Originally posted by ch00se @khpinc, I think you missed the point. I'm merely letting people know where they can go if they want. We didn't create something new overnight like so many other posts I read. I actually offered real help as well. My original goal was to keep things running for a while if I could (I have games on Mochi as well.. I'm a developer). Can you offer a better solution to what I should do to help?Oh, I've nothing against you and it's great that you came on to offer help. Personally, I just found your method (attacking others who are also trying to find ways to help in such short notice - I think most of their efforts are honorable) to be counterproductive and unprofessional. Your company's name speaks for itself. No need bashing others to raise yourself higher, THEN try to sell your services. As you clarified, this is a time for support. A simple, "It's FGL! You all know us and our arms are wide open" would have been less vicious and no one would have thought less of you, imo.
Anyway, no hard feelings here, and hopefully not with you. It was just my initial reaction to the post, not you specifically.
In regards to others, some may have been working out the idea for a Mochi-like presence for years but only needed a push to begin. Some may be very talented and able to produce a valuable service if given the chance. Necessity is often the mother of invention, after all. And true, some may fall on their faces. But imagine if someone talked to you the same way when FGL started up. Or perhaps some did and now you're on the other side being "that guy." Perhaps even, you were a huge inspiration to some of these people. You never know.
448 Originally posted by gio-m I have tried to use the FGL ads but being very bad at programing i found it confusing. I am will to try it again if you can point me to a walk through.Emanuele Feronato posted a mini tutorial in setting up FGLAds here:
http://www.emanueleferonato.com/2013/10/22/a-new-way-to-make-money-with-your-flash-games-fgl-ads/
You can also try making a thread in their support forums.
https://www.fgl.com/view_forum.php?forum_id=40
1,795 Originally posted by gio-m I have tried to use the FGL ads but being very bad at programing i found it confusing. I am will to try it again if you can point me to a walk through.If your using pre-game ads, I'd just use the auto-implement feature. Its in beta but it works pretty well.
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